In a fiery and thought-provoking episode of Nick Cannon’s podcast Counsel Culture, conservative commentator Candace Owens took center stage, dismantling woke ideologies surrounding gender and delivering an impassioned argument about objective truth. The interaction showcased Owens’ debating skills and her unyielding stance on controversial social issues.
Nick Cannon, former Nickelodeon star and host of America’s Got Talent, launched Counsel Culture as a podcast aimed at fostering “inclusive conversations” on taboo topics. The show’s mission, as described on its platform, is to provide a “safe space” for discussing issues like love, trust, and societal vulnerabilities.
Cannon himself has a controversial history. He was fired by ViacomCBS in 2020 after making anti-White remarks and identifying as a “Black supremacist.” While he has championed liberal causes like Black Lives Matter (BLM) and gun control, he has also criticized Planned Parenthood for its alleged eugenicist origins, particularly targeting founder Margaret Sanger.
This paradoxical backdrop set the stage for his conversation with Owens, who has gained prominence as a staunch critic of progressive ideologies and identity politics.
During their discussion, the topic of transgender identity became a flashpoint. Cannon suggested that personal beliefs should carry as much weight as opposing perspectives, framing his argument around subjectivity. “Your perception of the world is different from someone else’s because just as emphatic as you are that you believe what you just said, there’s someone that believes emphatically the opposite,” Cannon argued.
Owens, however, countered with a firm belief in objective truth. She framed the debate in terms of biological reality: “A person that is born a man, okay, a person that is born with a penis, as we call it, okay, cannot ever grow up and give birth. Do we agree with that?”
Cannon reluctantly acknowledged the biological impossibility of men giving birth but pressed on, asking, “But what if someone believes that that is a better life for them?”
This question opened the door for Owens to make her defining point.
Owens seized the opportunity to dismantle Cannon’s argument by drawing a controversial yet striking comparison. “Let’s play your way then,” she began, framing a scenario that highlighted the dangers of prioritizing subjective beliefs over objective truths.
She introduced the concept of “minor-attracted persons” (MAPs), a term used by some to destigmatize pedophilia, and rhetorically questioned whether society should accept such beliefs if they align with an individual’s sense of identity.
Her analogy drove home her argument: societal norms and laws exist to uphold objective truths and protect the greater good, not to cater to every individual’s subjective perspective.
Cannon, visibly struck by the analogy, conceded, “That’s a hell of a point.”
Watch below:
Owens: Let’s play your way then. Let’s do it the other way. There are a group of people who are now referring to themselves as minor-attracted people, but that’s what they believe. They believe that they are in love and want to have sex with children. They believe that, Nick. They believe it and are you going to apologize when you call them pedophiles? Are you going to apologize, Nick? Are you going to have them on your podcast? Don’t you understand how they feel on the inside when you say that they can’t have sex with eight-year-olds?
Cannon: That is a hell of a point!
Owens: The slippery slope is not a fallacy. It is reality. We are living the slippery slope. So, somebody is going to have to produce the wall. There’s going to be a lot of voices that need to be objective and tell people the truth. I’m very happy to be those voices. If you’re looking for me to, you know, make you feel good, I can’t be your mommy. I can’t be your mommy. I’m not your mommy, you’re not a toddler, you’re an adult. This is what truth is, and if you can’t deal with truth, then you’re going to have a very tough life, way tougher than having to listen to Candace Owens say “you are a man on the internet.” You cannot feel compassion for lies, especially because they have become— what they’re doing now is they’re wielding compassion as a sword to pass through everything that they want done, and like I said, you are going to blink, and compassion is going to end up with minor attracted peoples. Compassion is going to mean we can no longer call them pedophiles. That is what is going to happen. It is what is happening.
Cannon: We can’t let that happen.
Owens: We are barreling toward that. we are barreling toward that. It’s so obvious, because people don’t– they would rather tell a lie than risk offending someone.
The exchange between Owens and Cannon underscores the ongoing cultural battle over truth, subjectivity, and identity politics. For Owens, the debate isn’t just about transgender issues but a broader concern about the erosion of reality in favor of personal feelings.
This isn’t the first time Owens has made waves for her unapologetic views. Earlier this year, she parted ways with Ben Shapiro’s The Daily Wire following backlash for her opposition to U.S. involvement in Middle Eastern conflicts. The move solidified her position as a polarizing figure unafraid to challenge both liberal and conservative establishments.
Cannon’s willingness to engage Owens in such a contentious debate also highlights his podcast’s mission to tackle divisive issues, though his concessions during the episode suggest that even he may grapple with the implications of some progressive ideologies.
The Counsel Culture episode featuring Candace Owens offered a rare glimpse into how individuals from vastly different ideological backgrounds can engage in meaningful dialogue. Owens’ forceful defense of objective truth contrasted sharply with Cannon’s more relativistic approach, providing viewers with a thought-provoking discussion on one of the most polarizing issues of our time.
Whether one agrees with Owens or not, her debate with Cannon underscores the importance of open conversations in a world increasingly divided by ideology.
